ThaFormula.com - When you came to L.A. for your show, I remember you sayin' you were interested in working with Suga Free.  I never would have expected you to say that you would want to work with someone like that?

J-Zone - Yeah, I remember I was on highway number 10 or one of them and I seen Pomona and I know Suga Free was from Pomona.  All day I was like, "Yo I got to get up with Suga Free."  I said it on the show and they were like yeah he was up here.  He came up to do a drop for the show and they blazed up with him or whatever.  So I was like, "Yo if Suga Free is listening man, get at me."  I definitely got to do some shit with Suga Free.

ThaFormula.com - Your one of the few so called underground artists who are feelin' the gangsta shit..

J-Zone - I love that shit and I think that's the reason why, uh, a lot of people don't know how to take it. I mean, in my crates of course I got "Step
Into The Arena", "Funky Technician", "Mecca & The Soul Brother", and "It Takes a Nation of Millions."  I mean those are classic of course, but I also got "Straight Checkin 'Em", "Music to Driveby", "Tha Triflin Album", and "Hall of Game" by E-40. Honestly, I was more into that then the East Coast shit back in the days and people used to get mad.  Compton's Most Wanted and all the Rap-A lot shit from Houston, and even uknown groups from Cali like 415 from The Bay and Pooh-Man, Too Short and Ant Banks from The Bay.  If people listen to my beats, uh,  I mean I was influenced by Prince Paul, Marley Marl and definitely 45 king and Pete Rock, but my biggest influences are Bomb Squad and Sir Jinx.  I mean DJ Pooh is incredible. I mean just cause I make underground records don't mean I listen to underground rap.  

ThaFormula.com - I like the way you give the West Coast it's props and recognize the gangsta shit as being real hip-hop too because a lot of these kids nowaday's don't recognize none of the gangsta shit as real hip-hop?

J-Zone - The West Coast was the first to bring stories into hip hop. I mean you had some like Schooly D, but most of the people in New York were like, "I got this and I got that", but Ice-T did "6 in Da Morning" and they were telling stories.  I mean they had concepts like "Death Certificate" and "Amerikkas Most Wanted."  "Amerikkkas Most Wanted" is my favorite rap album of all time, period.  

ThaFormula.com - It's funny how some people don't realize that the production of a lot of these West Coast gangsta rappaz back in the day was straight hip-hop?

J-Zone - Yeah, man.  Like to me, Sir Jinx is the master.  He just put it down.  That first Lench Mob album is unbelievable.  That's the shit I came up on.  That gritty, mad shit going on.  Chaos you know what I'm sayin.  I have more of a comical like jokin' type of vibe, but musically just that chaos.

ThaFormula.com - I really wish that a lot of these MC's out there would open up a little and start usin' you're beats 'cause I really think that that is the only thing stoppin' you from blowin' the fuck up...

J-Zone - Yeah and most of the people I wanna work with are from out there.  Like there is no that many people in New York I wanna work with except for LL and G Rap because they're my favorites.  But I would like to work with guys like E-40, B-Legit, Suga Free, Too Short cause all those cats are entertaining.  A lot of these East Coast artists take this shit way to serious.  That's why I like someone like Too Short, cause this hip-hop shit is entertainment and he knows it.  

ThaFormula.com - Now I wanna get into this space rap/nerd rap shit that seems to be takin' over the underground scene.  I feel that this shit is killin' everything and it needs to stop. What are your thoughts on it?

J-Zone - Well, I'm part of this underground shit, but I always tell people don't get it twisted.  People meet me and I think they get a little disappointed because I'm not no backpacker man. I didn't think that people would get that impression from my music but I guess they do cause I'm from
New York and I'm in this underground shit.  People say, "J-Zone really listens to that gangsta shit."  Of course, I listen to 2 Live Crew!  I listen to WC & the Madd Circle.  To me good music is good music.  I'll have big debates about what's hip-hop and what's not hip-hop.  I don't look at what's hip-hop.  I just look at what I like.  I don't care if it sold 8 copies or 8 million copies. I just like good music and I'm not gonna close my mind off to just liking Gangstarr.  

ThaFormula.com - I noticed you have changed a lot from album to album as far as what you talk about...

J-Zone - Well as my stuff goes on and on, I stopped being so concerned about like the underground or trying to save the art form.  I just wanna have fun.  If you make good music your saving it itself.  You don't have to make a conscious effort to save hip-hop.  Saving hip-hop is not a movement, it's just making good records and just focusing on making good records and doing what you wanna do, and by doing that your playing your part.  Being mad at Nelly ain't gonna make you a better person.  I wish Nelly luck.  I mean that's not really what I buy, but I ain't mad at Nelly.  I'm gonna make what I wanna make.  That's my view on it.  Life is too short to get mad and be hating on people and try to purify the art so much.  I learned that no matter what you do, somebody is gonna knock that shit.  Like if I just kept doing the same thing from "Music from Tu Madre", yeah my core fans would be happy but mad people would be saying, "yo he does the same damn thing every time."  But then if I change up, some people would be saying he's got variety, but some people will be like "nah he's sellin' out."  You can't please everybody so just please yourself and it will all fall into place.

ThaFormula.com - At this point in time in your career, what do you think is more important, to have fun or to make money?

J-Zone - Now, it's important to have a balance.  When I first started, it was all about music, but then I graduated school and I had to make a living and you realize that contrary to the album title, you gotta pay your taxes.  I got to keep my lights on.  I realize that I got to make money, so what I do is, I make music that I wanna make, but I try to figure out ways to make money.  How to hustle it hard.  So what I do is find people that like the music that I like and I try to promote my shit to that crowd that hard.  When I first started, I was just interested in doing beats for Hug and Shid and just keepin' it within the crew. Now, you know, I'm not gonna water down my sound, but if there is a rapper that I don't particularly like, but he wants to buy a beat off of me, I'll do it.  I'm not watering down my vision with the beat.  I might not like what he's doing, but sometime you got to go halfway.  You'll say okay I won't compromise my music itself but sometimes if somebody wants to give you money to keep your lights on, you gotta compromise who you work with, but at the same time your not compromising your part. You're just comprising who's on it.  So that I'll do.  If Nelly wanted to give me $20,000 for a J-Zone beat, like some shit that I would give to myself or I would give to Biz, or I would give to Biz and I didn't have to change nothin', hell yeah I would do it.  He might not be the greatest rapper and some people might be disappointed, but in my eyes I'm not sellin' out, I'm being smart cause I'm makin' money and getting exposure off of doing what I do naturally, and to me that's smart, that's not selling out.

ThaFormula.com - So what about all those hip-hop purists out there that say if it's like that, why not go out and get a job and do hip-hop on the side and keep it real, do it for the love, etc. etc?

J-Zone - To each his own.  I worked all my life to get to this and if I ever had to get a job and I was starvin' and broke, I would do it.  I'm at the point where I'm doing what I wanna do and I'm makin' a livin' by doing a lot of different things.  I mean I write a column for a magazine, I do studio time, I make beats, I tour, I rhyme, and I do a lot of different shit that I'm able to juggle.  But I don't feel like I'm sacrificing my music.  I feel like I'm getting it all done.  I'm not rich, but I'm doing ok.  I think it's possible making a living doing what you love, but you just have to realize that you just can't be a rapper and make a living.  I'm doing everything right now and I know that a jack of all trades they say, is a master of none.  I never claimed to be the greatest rapper, but I get to do guest appearances on a record to get some money.  I put out my own records.  I go do shows, do production, run a label.  I try to do as many things as humanly possible.    

ThaFormula.com - Who do you consider to be the greatest MC of all time?

J-Zone - I say overall like everything combined, being able to rock at a Bar Mitzvah, and then take it to the hood and rip you apart, LL Cool J.  But in terms of just straight rhymin' ability and just lyrics on the mic, G. Rap is toastin' everybody.  No one's comin' close because he's always been potent and he can do it all.  Battle, stories, I mean G. Rap is the greatest hands down.  I don't think there's any contesting that. There is people that had a chance to be that great.  Like Kane in his prime was ridiculous.  Rakim in his prime was ridiculous, and shit people will diss me for this but muthafuckin' Ice Cube in his prime was ridiculous.  A lot of people hate on me for that.  Cube's not a battle rapper, but Cube between '88 and '91 was unreal and your hatin' 'em.  Cube was nice.  I think a lot of people think that you have to be from New York or you have to be a battle rapper.  Cube never kicked no battle raps, but Cube was just nice.  Overall I got to say G. Rap.  

ThaFormula.com - What do you think is stopping you from working with all these big names.  I mean you got a lot of wack producers out there doing horrible beats for most of the dope MC's in the game?

J-Zone - It's name, bottom line. I have to get that one beat to that right artist to blow over and then the door will get kicked in.  I'm not really mad because a lot of these guys have done beats for years and it's not like 10 years ago where you could come out with your group and blow. Nowadays, you have to have a hit.  Like Premier and Pete Rock just did dope shit with their groups and then people would inquire within, but now like Alchemist was doing a lot of independent records and then all of a sudden he started doing joints for people like Jadakiss and Terror Squad. Word got around that he got that thing.  I did this track for Biz Markie. It's supposed to be the single and if not, it will be the B-Side.  It will definitely be on the album.  Everybody is feelin' that shit and when it comes out that might be it.  I think it just takes that one hit.  Like he's the only person who believed in me.  I've played beats for a lot of rappers.

ThaFormula.com - How did it come about that Biz Markie got interested in your beats?  

J-Zone - Well, Ethan knows this cat at Groove Attack and they have always liked my records.  So Ethen was tellin' them that I was lookin' for some production work.  I was originally trying to do a remix of a Declaime record at the time and I gave Groove Attack a couple of copies of my beat CD's and told them if something comes through, hit 'em up.  But it's like Declaime kind of wanted to stick with his crew and Tone called me up and told me, "I got good news and bad news", I said, "what's the bad news?" "Well Declaime wants to stick with Madlib and his crew, but the good news is that were doing this Biz album and I'm sendin' him a package right now." So he calls me back 2 weeks later saying which tracks Biz wanted and I thought it was kinda hot.  It was just cool that Biz just heard the music and didn't care whose name was on it.  Because I played beats for a lot of other rappers and they liked it, but they said "oh that's a little bit too off the wall" or "I'm trying to stick with the names I got on my shit." Its not that they don't like the beats, they like them, but my name isn't tried and tested yet and the shit is kind of different.  A lot of people just want the classic boom-bap shit just so they have a sure sell.

ThaFormula.com - The last time we spoke you told me you were having a problem with finding distribution and that you had been turned down by a few?

J-Zone - Yeah, that was a little while ago.  It's because we never had what was cool to like at the time.  I just felt like people were bullshittin'.  I was frustrated because people were saying, "yeah I like the product but I can't find it."  Also pressing the shit yourself and paying for the manufacturing, the profit margin is good but a lot of times it's difficult getting your shit out there.  At that point I was just a person who made beats and rhymes and was trying to learn the business so I was making mad mistakes.  My first 2 albums didn't even have bar codes.  I didn't know shit about sound scan.  I was still learning, but I didn't really lose a lot of money.  I did okay in that I made back what I spent, but I lost a lot of sales potential the first time around, which is why "Whup Ass" and "Tu Madre" is coming back out. The first time around I had an audience of 6 or 7 thousand and I would sell 3 thousand and I wasn't reachin' my full potential because I couldn't get it everywhere. So what I had to do was get my rank up by doing records with other people.  So I did that 12" on Rawkus/Eastern Conference and after that demands started poppin' up for my shit more and that's when Fat Beats approached me with doing my vinyl and that helped me out a lot.  Pressing CD's ain't that bad, but pressing vinyl is a bitch.  Pressing vinyl is the epitome of hard shit to do.  It costs money to ship it to people.  It cost money to promo the vinyl.  It costs money to do all that shit.  Like if you wanna hit DJ's, and at that time I didn't have the money to press up promos, so I'm sending them commercial copies of my record and I didn't have money to do a single so they had no radio edits.  The ones who really wanted to play it, they did the edit by hand.  I would do CDR clean edits, but it would take mad time and it was a pain in the ass and I just got frustrated.  So when Fat Beats came in and pressed what I brought in, it made it easier because I was like, "now I can do a single with radio edit and I can get some promos to mail out to my key DJ's." Being that they are pressing and distributing, I am more of a priority as opposed to me pressing it and bringing it to every distributor.

ThaFormula.com - Now can't a distributor press up let's say 10,000 copies and sell them all but tell you they only pressed sold 5,000 copies?

J-Zone - That's possible to happen to, but we sit down and we set press goals for shit and then I make sure I get my press goal and then if the invoice is saying something different then you can go in and ask questions.

ThaFormula.com - Would you know if they pressed up an extra 5,000 copies?

J-Zone - I could find out, but at the same time the only sure-fire way to not get jerked at all with no risk is to press it yourself, but it's so much work.  I'm not scared of hard work, but it's just so much stress that sometimes it's worth it.

ThaFormula.com - What would you say artists options are in this business is far as getting their product out there?

J-Zone - You have a couple of different options.  You could A, do that, but then you have those stresses or B, you could go get a deal and leave everything up to somebody else and it's all out of your hands. They can press a million and you will never know, or C, do like me which is right in the middle where you own your masters and you make a lot of the decisions. You have someone press the vinyl and with the CD's, I was pressing the CD's myself but then with "Pimps," Fat Beats has sort of a deal with BMG and they re-issued my "Pimp" CD's so now you can get "Pimps Don't Pay Taxes" in the chain stores.   

ThaFormula.com - So did the distribution deal with Fat Beats change a lot of things?

J-Zone - Well that got my vinyl heard more and since they have that BMG thing, it allowed my album to get into the chains. But I built a rapport with them over the years.  At first I started by just bringing it to the store on consignment, then after that I was sellin' to The Wherehouse directly, then after that I would sell to The Wherehouse directly, but it would be exclusive and then after that we did the vinyl distribution deal. Eventually I was able to get this thing for "Pimps."    

ThaFormula.com - So are things a lot better now and are you happy with the way things are going?

J-Zone - I'm definitely happier.  I mean Rome wasn't built in a day so of course it takes time.  Even though I'm in the chains, I don't have a video.  I don't have ads in The Source.  I'm not expecting a tremendous amount of sales cause A, it's a licensing thing.  It's not like it's an album really. I licensed the album so it's not like it was a new product. Really what I'm trying to do is get my music to all those people in Iowa that heard my shit on Napster but cant order on-line or don't go on the net.  I'm doing this for all the people who like my shit and to get a presence in a bigger market. You know that will lead to other things.  Maybe it will lead to more production opportunities.

ThaFormula.com - So do you feel your fan base has increased?

J-Zone - Definitely.  I see a huge difference in the last year.  Every year is a movement.  3 years ago I was traveling all over the place not getting a dime for shows.  Actually losing money just to promote.  The only profit I would make from the show is sellin' the product and hopefully I would sell enough product to cover gas money. Then a year later I was getting a chance to travel international and do shit like that and I was finally getting paid for show and opening up for other people.  Now I'm getting a chance to headline, which I never did.  I'm trying to get some longevity and I'm planning on doing it for a long time.  As long as I'm making progress, I'm not mad.  It's easy for me to get mad and say, "yeah there is producers out there who suck, and labels that suck and all these people making wack records, why ain't' I bigger?" But there is nothing I can do about it, but just keep making good music and trying to hustle, By doing that every year, I've gotten a step further.  It's not like back in the days when you could just get a deal off of a demo.  I mean some majors have shown interest, but it's like they were trying to change my formula.  I want to do what I want to do.

ThaFormula.com - So you got majors interested now?

J-Zone - Yeah, cause I guess a lot of majors now are trying to keep their ear to the street.  So I started getting calls from bigger labels, A&R's and stuff.  I mean you have meetings with majors and they talk about signing you and stuff but there is never really any details.  It's just like, "Kid we wanna sign you" and I'm like "Ok  what we gonna do?"  They'll say "we will sign you, but you just need a couple of more radio singles for your album, you know we will re-release it as it is with some more radio singles."  So I'm like, "define radio singles."  What do you want me to do?  It's kind of like real vague.  See, they show mad interest and when you don't bite the bait and get all excited or when you just ask too many questions, I guess they look at it as they are threatened by that or that your not excited.  Then all of a sudden the phone stops ringing. They are full of shit.  I guess they are just looking for somebody to just jump for joy and get signed.  I ask to many questions.  If I'm gonna sign a record deal, chances are I'll be trapped in for life. (Laughs) So if I'm gonna get trapped for life and your gonna own the name J-Zone for the next 50 years, I wanna know what's the money I'm getting? Who do I have to get on my album? What constitutes a radio single? etc.  It's nice that you like the stuff that I do, but obviously your not willing to put it out as it is, so I got to do some changing and when I ask what kind of changes, I'm getting vague answers and that's not good enough.  I can't sign a record deal and not know what the fuck I'm gonna be doing.   

ThaFormula.com - So what are you lookin' for as an artist and for your label?

J-Zone - As an artist, I never saw myself getting much bigger cause I never really cared about being an artist, but as a label it would be nice to get a good CD deal and start looking for other talent.  If I had the budget, I would have the means to go sign some talent.  Like go look up some of these older school guys that still got it.  Like I would love to sign a Suga Free and fuck the head up of everybody. A cat with this crazy Cali accent rappin' about pimpin' over one of my beats.  If he liked my music I would love to do it, but I would need the money to sign him.

ThaFormula.com - You know I remember when underground stations used to play gangsta shit along with B-boy shit because it was just dope hip-hop. But somehow in the last few years something changed and all of a sudden if you weren't bustin' no spaceship intergalactic lyrics, or talkin' about coffee shops or nerd shit, you weren't considered real hip-hop?

J-Zone - Now I'm not blaming these guys cause I like these groups, but I think it kind of started with the Souls of Mischief and Freestyle Fellowship shit.  See, they were out to prove a point that everyone on the West Coast ain't on no gangsta shit which was cool. But then everybody after that got on some shit where it's wack to do the gangsta shit, and then after that the only people who felt L.A. was the mainstream.

ThaFormula.com - What happened Zone? How did this nerd rap make it this far?

J-Zone - It just lost its edge completely.  Anything rugged is described as non hip-hop.  Everybody is scared to be considered thug or scared to be considered rugged.  Everybody is scared to be funny.  People just want to talk about the world ending over these spaced invader ass pseudo-techno beats and it's fucking noise to me! All this shit is noise.  All this fucking art fag shit is straight noise to me and it just sounds like crap. People are so busy elevating and uplifting that they forget how to entertain.  Back in the day X-Clan and Public Enemy would do both, but nowadays people are so busy trying to be prophets and save the world. Everybody is wearing all this corduroy shit and it's just like all his fucking space shit!!  FUCK ALL THAT BIG WORDS SHIT!!  That's why I listen to what I listen to, because I don't wanna hear all that big nerd shit.  I wanna hear, "In My Neighborhood" by Spice.  That's my shit.  

ThaFormula.com - What year do you think it all started to change?

J-Zone - Something happened around '95 or '96.  Like Puff and Foxy Brown and them were jiggy on the East and like Death Row had mad imitators on the West.  People were complaining about Mack 10 and West Side Connection with the synthesizer beats so everybody was trying to be different. I'll admit I was tired of all that shit too so you know everybody turned to the underground.  The first few years you know, you had Ras Kass and Hiero on the West and in the East you had early Company Flow shit, Natural Elements and it was cool. But then like '99 and 2000 all of a sudden muthafuckas started getting way into that planet shit.  They just went all the way out.  That fake Afrocentric shit got in the picture.  That's why when I made "Bottle of Whup Ass" that's when I first started performing to promote "Music for Tu Madre" and I was doing shows with all these people and I was like, "yo, these muthafuckas are not having fun!"  I was like this shit has gotten to damn nerdy and it's like every year I've gotten more sarcastic and more of an attitude 'cause I'm like this shit is getting nerdier and nerdier.  Rap was about having some kind of edge and it's like nobody has the edge.  Also, there is more rappers then there is fans, that's the muthafuckin' problem. People come out trying to analyze saying shit like, "Oh, that punch line wasn't that slick."  Yo, just be a fan man.  You know, I'm J-Zone and I make music but I went to go see EPMD a while back cause I'm a fan and I went as a fan, not J-Zone.  Nowadays it seems like your performing in front of a bunch of MC's. Muthafuckas saying, "oh, he's not saying anything intellectual."  I'm like, shut the fuck up man and just enjoy the show.  I don't even go to rap shows no more man, but the last one I went to, I went as a fan and I think that night at the show in L.A. a lot of people left their rhymin' hats at home.  Overseas the shows are crazy 'cause muthafuckas come out to have fun.  In New York, your performing for a bunch of MC's just standing there mad at the world. There's Hip-hop, and then there's all that space shit and nerd shit.

ThaFormula.com - So has that space/nerd shit spread even in New York? Because I thought it was mainly deep in L.A?

J-Zone - Oh! It's fuckin' everywhere. 

ThaFormula.com - It seems to me that the commercial scene and underground scene are the same as far as brainwashing people into believing that this wack shit is dope?

J-Zone - Yeah, I tell people that the underground ain't nothing but a poor man's commercial game.  It's the same shit.  This nerd shit has to go, it's a disease.  I think a lot of people feel this way, but they are scared to admit it.  I'm not scared to admit it.  I know I might disappoint a chosen few and lose some fans, but if that what it takes to get to the bigger cause, then I'm with it.  I honestly feel in my heart, FUCK THIS NERD SHIT!!  I don't wanna be typecast as another nerd group and if I got to lose 5 fans, that's fine.  I don't want no one putting me in that group.  I don't want to be compared to no nerd ass underground shit. Somebody who reviewed my first album said it's a mixture between "Amerikkas Most Wanted" and "Mr. Hood" with his own shit.  I like that because KMD represents the East Coast shit that I like, and "Amerikkkas Most Wanted" represents the West Coast shit.

ThaFormula.com - There seems to be no respect for OG guys like E-40 and them from these underground kids who talk all this independent shit?

J-Zone - Those cats were paying dues in like the late 80's sellin' out the trunk.  E-40 invented the independent game.  How you gonna be a fan of nerd independent rap.  I mean o.k. if you don't like 40 fine it's an acquired taste, but to say E-40 ain't hip-hop?  If it wasn't for him none of this shit would be happening because Sick-Wit-It invented that sellin' out the trunk shit.

ThaFormula.com - How many tracks did you end up doing for Biz Markie's upcoming LP?

J-Zone - He picked a few beats, but we wound up only using one.  My shit is supposed to be the single and the video.  I'm not getting my hopes up 'cause I know how the game goes, but if mine still winds up being the single and video that will be a big move.

ThaFormula.com - Have you gotten any other production work because of this Biz Markie project?

J-Zone - I've spoken to a few other rappers, but some of them said they like the beats when I'm on them, but they don't want them.  Then I come out with them and then they like them.  No one really wants to take the risk on my production because it ain't the normal Boom-Bap shit.  At the same I'm not gonna stop in my tracks because people are frontin'. That's why I have Old Maid, because I have my ideas and beats.  If people ain't gonna use my shit, I'm not gonna give up and say "alright I'm just gonna sit here and wait for somebody to pick." I'm gonna keep on putting out my records on my record label, doing what I wanna do until someone comes.

ThaFormula.com - What are the upcoming projects we should be hearing you on soon?

J-Zone - The next project is my single.  A new Al-Shid 12" is coming out in about 2 months.  I have a Celph Titled single lined up.  We're finishing that up now.  I'm working on something with Louis Logic and I'm getting' back in the lab to work on some more shit.  Like I wasn't thinkin' of  doing another album, but lately I've been getting a lot of ideas.

ThaFormula.com - Is there gonna be an Al Shid album?

J-Zone - Were still just working on music now, but he's also doing his own things.  He makes beats and he's got his own crew.  But we have a new single that's done and should be out in November.  I was gonna stop Rhymin', but if people keep frontin' I'ma say fuck it and just do it 'cause I mean, I'll do a beat for low money if I really feel the artist, but a lot of these people are low money and there on that nerd shit.  I wanna bring back that fun shit with dope interludes.  I'm ready to start pissin' people off 'cause people can't sleep on you if their mad at you.  If I get people hatin' on me for a cause that I'm with, then I'm with it cause I mean this nerd shit has got to go man.  I just feel like a lot of these nerd cats have never lived life.  They are so busy rhymin' and being nerdy and being underground that they don't take time to live life.  Go play some sports, talk to some chicks and live a muthafuckin' life.  I don't think they talk to women.  I don't they play sports or go out.  Their whole life is hip-hop and that's just gay to me.  I mean rap about something else then rap. Talk about other things man.  It's alright to do a song about doin' hip-hop for the love here and there, but to have a whole album just dedicated to being a nerdy ass rapper rhymin' all that space shit that don't make no sense is wack!

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