ThaFormula.com - Are the Native Tongue days something you guys miss a lot and wish was still going on today?

A.F.R.I.C.A. - Ahh, yes and no.  I miss the spirit of it.  The way the audience was more like family and everybody was like on a similar vibe.  We would be in the streets hanging out and bump into people that were in the same vibe that we was in or just thinking consciously or differently about music and getting our little inside jokes and everything.  That was the cool part.

ThaFormula.com - Do you miss the unity that there used to be between so many real artists in the early 90's compared to now?

A.F.R.I.C.A. - No doubt, there's a lack of unity 'cause its like the whole love thing got tainted by the music business.  The money aspect of the business kind of like made cats run in different directions instead of cherishing what we had that no money could buy. Down the road, they would have realized that if we would have kept what we had, that would have gotten you all the money you would have ever wanted. Because that was like a fan base right there, but it was a family like fan base, and the whole Native Tongue thing was like coming to be a family thing too, but people were more interested in the individual as opposed to the whole picture.

ThaFormula.com - Back then when you guys were doing this was everyone livin' cool? I mean was it good enough to pay the bills and enjoy life?

A.F.R.I.C.A. - We really didn't have that many bills.  We just like piled up the money in a stocking.  Everybody was happy.  We was young, I mean we still young but we were premature in the game and I think some of the real life issues started coming up later, but still had everything stayed intact, it could have supported it.  I just went to go see the Bob Marley anniversary down in Miami, you see all the Marley family on stage and that whole family unit intact and that is what supported them through all these years.  The unity, not the individual, and that's the missing element with the Native Tongues.  It's too individualistic.  Like just when you get one group together to unify, like just when we had reunified De La, Tribe, and Jungle, Tribe broke up.  It was crazy individual.  And like Mike and I were straight up family man, and like down to earth.  So we just watchin' brothers go in different directions and it was like they gotta do whatever they gotta do to try to keep themselves above water and still ain't gonna overlook the fact that there's strength in numbers. Their own selfish means was bringing them to a point where it was like you can't go any further and all your family, fans or customers is askin' for a size 10 and you givin' them a size 6.  So it's like "aight, keep givin' them the size 6 just cause they're paying you for it." Give them the size 10, that would blow the whole shit out the water.

ThaFormula.com - Was the Native Tongue tour almost about to happen?

A.F.R.I.C.A. - It never really happened.  It's like too many cooks in the kitchen.  I'ma tell you the real shit.  De La has gotten to a position where they went platinum, they have certain status, but when they go out and perform, they would rather bring people on stage that they can manipulate and exploit and that will kiss their ass.  Or even like bring new cats that have got their eyes wide open like, "ohh that's De La."  You know, like the Commons', even Dres from Black Sheep, they usin' him and even like if its Black Eyed Peas that's just on the same Native Tongue caliber but just don't have the status yet.  They would rather bring them out cause it's like these guys are looking up to us, why should we bring Jungle out? They ain't gonna look up to us, we might as well keep the platinum status that we had from back then and separate ourselves from them and keep movin'.

ThaFormula.com - It's amazing how back then nobody really made an effort to say, "yo I'm better than you even though you're my homie?"

A.F.R.I.C.A. - I know, but that's the way they looked at it.  Even if it's a matter of "yo, I got mouths to feed so I gotta protect the status I have and parlay it up to whatever is gonna come to me in the pipeline." But I don't see them getting' no bigger.  I'm just keepin' it real.

ThaFormula.com - Do you think if you all would have went platinum together, that this would have happened?

A.F.R.I.C.A. - It would have still got ugly cause Tribe is platinum too, and Tribe and De La is like oil and water.  They mad at Tip because he flipped on them the way they flipped on us.  It was like what goes around comes around.

ThaFormula.com - I'm startin' to see how wack shit really is.  In the 90's all that mattered was that your skills were on the same level as the artists you worked with.  Now that don't matter.  If you're not sellin' and you have skills artists won't work with you, but if your sellin' and your wack, then they will?  That's wack!!

A.F.R.I.C.A. - It's like cards in a game.  You play your best hand and you keep your best cards to yourself and you play up you don't play down.  It's like all right, I got these chips, and I got to flip these chips into bigger chips.  If I start breaking off my chips to somebody that only has got one, that's going backwards.  That's the mentality of it, but it doesn't have to be like that.

ThaFormula.com - Did you feel that the separation that took place between everyone was inevitable?

A.F.R.I.C.A. - Nah, but you could see it when it was starting to unfold.  It was less contact.

ThaFormula.com - Do you feel that Yo! MTV Raps was good for Hip-Hop or bad for Hip-Hop?

A.F.R.I.C.A. - I think at that point it kind of advanced Hip-Hop too fast.  It advanced Hip-Hop before Hip-Hop could grow up and know the value of a MTV or the value of a performance on the Arsenio Hall show.  It was a select few that got on there and once they was on there it kind of fast forwarded their careers and all their peers were no longer there peers.  It was like, "we got something that you didn't get, so we must be not on the same level as you." Now you get on MTV and your shows go from like 2 G's to like 10 G's. Now if you get on MTV, your shows go from like 10 G's to like 120 G's.  Like if your Outkast, who's on regular rotation on MTV, your getting 120 G's a show straight up.

ThaFormula.com - Now lets speak on what you were tellin' me recently about the publishing situation you guys had with the "V.I.P." album?

A.F.R.I.C.A. - The publishing thing is a big, big secret.  That's the heart of the business that a lot of the rap artists overlook.  They rap about keepin' it and not givin' it away but they don't know what to do with it if they keep it.  Our last album "V.I.P.", the whole focus for me was that the guy that produced the music, reflected a genre of music that was being heavily licensed for commercials, TV, films, so we knew we didn't even have to do videos and all that.  We ain't even got to spend money on promotion or nothin'.  As soon as the record is done, get it out to the TV, and the films. That's where the major money is comin' from. It wasn't from doing shows, it wasn't from makin' videos, it was from publishing.  We had songs on a Tom Green film, Boston Public TV show, Pamela Anderson's V.I.P., Malcolm in the Middle.  All them joints, every time they rerun, that's more money.  That's more checks, that's residuals.

ThaFormula.com - So did that turn out to be the most successful Jungle Brothers album for you guys financially?

A.F.R.I.C.A. - Technically, yeah because it was money that was made that we didn't have to do much work after recording.  Once the record was recorded and mastered, it was like immediate money.  It wasn't about road doggin' it even though we did do that too, but that's the focus of the next record.  This record now has the potential to do better then the last one once you talk about licensing, because we hold the masters. So now we would get paid as the label does when a song is put in movies and we would get paid on the publishing so we would get it from both ends.  A lot of times when a movie wants to license something, they pay like 20 to 50 G's or whatever for the master rights, they pay an equal amount for the publishing rights.  So you put those 2 together and your talkin' like 40 to 100 thousand dollars for one placement.  No video, no nothing.  I mean it could sell 2 copies, but the publishing can generate more money than sales in the record stores and right now with so much downloading of the music for free, that's like the safest bet of generating income without being snatched off the Internet for free. Because people ain't gonna download a TV show or download a movie, and even if they do, the production company already paid you your fee to have your song in the TV show or the video, so let them download it for free.

ThaFormula.com - Do you have a web site and how has that been for you guys?

A.F.R.I.C.A. - Recently we did a show for The Poetess' 10 year anniversary and then right before the show she got us on 100.3 The Beat and we like just shouted out the web site. Then today somebody called us for some festival out here in L.A. for like 10 G's and it was just from them going to the web site.  That was in less then a 12-hour period.  No middlemen, no booking agents, no nothing.  Artists are not takin' advantage of the Internet.   I mean we cut the deal right there.  We pushin' it to the max.

ThaFormula.com - Why do you think a lot of these artists are not utilizing the Internet right?

A.F.R.I.C.A. - Cause it's the mind set.  Back when the artists that you're talkin' bout first came out, the mind set was like "I wanna be popular, I wanna stand out from the rest," and then it got flooded and that became harder to do.  It took more money.  Now with the power of the Internet it really takes less money and you get more promotion with less effort and cats don't understand that 'cause they are used to putting in so much effort to be popular. It's like "nah I'm not up on that," or "that's too easy," or "I'm not throwin' my stuff up there to be up there with like a million other people." They still wanna show out the old way.  Gotta get with the time's man.

ThaFormula.com - What do you think the biggest reason that so many legends are fallin' off one by one man?

A.F.R.I.C.A. - Part of it is probably that they lose interest.  Another part of it could be they haven't really fallen off, they just wanna do something else.  Another part of it could be the ego is too crushed, or another could be they don't wanna keep up in the whole uh, they feel like they lost their identity or times have changed too much.  I think what a lot of people overlook with the whole Jungle Brothers vibe and the whole "Neo-Soul" vibe and the "Hip-Hop Jazz" vibe and whatever, is that we put ourselves in a position where we're not old and we're not trendy.  We're like something you could always rely on like jazz.  Jazz greats will always be jazz greats. Coltrane will always be Coltrane, Miles Davis will always be Miles Davis.  If you wanna return and listen to that, you will listen to that.  It's classic but it's not dated because its like that was the style and nobody else copied that style.  It was them and it was made for them.  Like a lot of the labels got caught up in the leather and the sweatsuits, and the 808 drum machines, all the old rhyme patterns, and that really got dated when the sampling came in and brothers started using rare grooves, funk, and soul and it became new again.  You took old and made it new, but it was old live musician stuff and everyone could relate to live music.

ThaFormula.com - But my thing is why is everyone trying to jump on the live music bandwagon now? It seems like everyone wants to have a band now and tries to be like The Roots?

A.F.R.I.C.A. - Yeah, if that's what they are feelin' then that's what they're feelin', but if they're just doing it because they think it's gonna add more to their longevity, it's that I want to be popular again.  It goes back to that.  The ego wants to stand out so it's like, "yo, let me put out this big major production with this live band so I can stand out from the rest and have that Roots vibe," or whatever, and all that ain't even necessary.  I mean Hip-Hop stripped all of that down.  You had all these big 80's rock bands that was puttin' on these million dollar productions and then Hip-Hop just came out with 2 turntables and it was like it did the same numbers, 20,000 seats.  With the stripped down effect we dominated the influence of the fans and the influence of the music which is 2 turntables, so what is that tellin' you?  You don't necessarily need a whole band you know?

ThaFormula.com - Did you ever think Hip-Hop would end up becoming so commercialized and separated not only in the commercial scene but also in the underground scene?

A.F.R.I.C.A. - I was kind of disappointed with the trendiness of the underground, and once I saw Fat Beats come out, I knew that was gonna happen.

ThaFormula.com - I notice how kids even in the underground are more worried about how they look on stage then how their music sounds. Even the crowd is the same way wearin' all this Hip-Hop gear, when back in the day there was no Hip-Hop gear.  You just wore whatever and that's why everyone looked different and kids were original.

A.F.R.I.C.A. - Back in the early days it was like sheepskins and bombers and Adidas, Pumas, British Walkers, you know.  Brothers was fashion conscious back then but the name brands were limited.  It was like a standard anyway, so it was like that was fresh.  But now it's like there is so many name brands, so many styles and clothing lines, there is so many fall seasons, winter seasons, summer seasons... If you look at magazines like The Source Magazine, it's like a out of 100 pages, you got like 85 advertisements and what that basically says is that the people that read The Source Magazine really don't read.  That's like saying Hip-Hoppers don't read, they're not literate.  They just like looking at pictures and then that's what translates in the clubs.  It's like a fashion show.

ThaFormula.com - Sometimes I feel that the next generation of Hip-Hop will mark the end, due to the fact that the music these kids are growin' up to now is just plain stupid. Shit that makes no sense unlike the conscious and street shit that we grew up on?

A.F.R.I.C.A. - It's possible.  They might grow older and start diggin' in the crates but then there will be so much they will have to go through they might not even pursue it or they might just get a piece of it, but you raise a good point.  Where is the next innovation gonna come from? This is where it ends for them not for us.  They will probably just drift off into something else 'cause the powers that be have it set up now where they can like cut Hip-Hop off completely.  As far as on commercial radio and the younger generation is so addicted to radio and video that they will just go with what's coming up next as long as its got the stamp of approval from the herd.  It's like everybody is going with that.. "all right I'm going with that."  But you know they got it like that right now. It's like the record companies can sell millions of records and make money with pop bands with Hip-Hop beats. It's now a business before anything else.  It used to be about music, but now its about business. I mean it was always about business, but the record industry was fairly young in the 60's and 70's so it was still a lot about music and movin' people and influencing people. Now it's more hi-tech.  You got music being recycled so now it's like well the hits are already made, all we gotta do is recycle them so lets just skip to the business.

ThaFormula.com - Are you guys still in speakin' terms at all with any of the Native Tongues people?

A.F.R.I.C.A. - Well, we did a show with Phife and Jarobi.  I'll tell you a story like this.  I got a friend in Florida and Mase moved to Florida.  I been in Florida for 4 years and he knows I'm down there.  So my friend bumped into me and my friend has my number in his cell phone so he was like "yo, you know Africa is down here? Let me call him and hook you all up." Mase was like, "nah, nah, nah,  I'll get up with him later."  I haven't seen Mase or heard from him in like 4 or 5 years.  So to say "nah, nah. I'll get up with you later?" Now on the other hand, Mr. Lawge from Black Sheep just got down there right, Mike finally hooked Mr. Lawnge and me up and he (Lawnge) told me, "yo, I was trying to look up your name in the White Pages, I was trying to find your number but I had the wrong name."  And he was like, "yo, I saw your movie and the credits came up and then I got your real first and last name and I'm lookin' you up." So what does that tell you? You got one homie lookin' you up, you got another homie who has got access to you right there and he's like, "yo, nah, nah, l'll get up with you later."  That's bullshit.  It's always been bullshit.

ThaFormula.com - What are the chances of there ever being a Native Tongues reunion?  What would you compare that happening to?

A.F.R.I.C.A. - I would compare that to you trying to predict the Twin Towers being bombed. Muthafuckas would be lookin' at you like, "What? What's he talkin' about?  Ain't nobody gonna fly no plane through the Twin Towers! You crazy!"  I mean it's a nice dream.  I mean I love the Native Tongues and what it was back in the day.  I love the whole naive.  That's what it really was, brothers were naive, havin' fun, and then when real life issues came up, brothers reacted. They reacted like Adam and Eve.  Like "oh shit we naked, get some clothes."  Like, "Oh shit it's cold out here, let's get inside and close the door, oh they still out there?  Damn that's fucked up."

ThaFormula.com - So when one blew up there was really no one up there to just reach their hand down and say, "yo come up with me and let's do this?"

A.F.R.I.C.A. - Nah, 'cause they ain't really blow up.  That's the whole thing.  What they perceive as blowin' up, is not really blowin' up.  Will Smith blew up, that's why he can say. "yo, Jazzy Jeff roll with me, yo, Biz Markie, roll with me."   He is so blown up, he can provide.  De La ain't blown up.  De La can't do nothin' for me.  They can't even do anything for themselves, but the ego is saying "nah, but I'm big," and it's like they only wanna show the love when everybody is looking and everybody is checkin'.  When nobody is lookin' or checkin it's like, "yo we gotta keep it movin, we gotta hustle."  Yet every time you check them in the interviews, you dissin' all these characters like Jay -Z, you dissin' all these characters like DMX. You got grudges against everybody in the industry who live by the same creed that you're trying to live by.  Hustlin' and makin' it happen just for themselves doing them.  But yet you're hatin' on them. Why? Because they're blowin' up bigger than you.  Why? Because they show loyalty to each other.  Gangster rappers show more loyalty. I mean yeah they shoot and kill each other, but they show more loyalty to each other then peaceful rappers.  Wu-Tang Clan showed more loyalty to each other than peaceful rappers.  Cause look at the whole Wu-Tang thing.  They did a group together, then they split up and did solos, then did 2 more records together. Then they jumped on each other's records.  That's the way people wanna see the Native Tongue thing but its like they still worried about how I wanna be the one to stand out.

ThaFormula.com - Were you all as tight as Wu-Tang?

A.F.R.I.C.A. - Nah, but we was gettin' there.  We was gettin' there like family.  They would be coming over my house, sleeping over, eating breakfast, chillin' out. I would be going over their house eating breakfast, chillin' out then after a while all that shit went dry.

ThaFormula.com - Why is it that nobody really wants to talk about this?

A.F.R.I.C.A. - Because they are living in a false reality.  I'm free that's why I'm talkin' about it like this.  I don't have any animosity.  I'm not trying to start no trouble, but I'm not gonna lie to myself because there is too many things to enjoy in life to be trying to hide a few secrets about different things.  Just let it out in the open because my whole life is not about trying to get together a Native Tongue tour and my whole life is not trying to live my life through the reflection my fans and how they perceive me.  It's like they perceive me because of what I did in the past.  That perception can be changed by the truth that I tell in the present, and that's the only way, otherwise I'ma be livin' in a fantasy just like the fans who are trying to live in that fantasy. They're trying to keep the fans thinking that everything is all right so that it can further advance their course.  It's like, "oh word yeah? I love the Native Tongues, ahh yeah De La is playin' tonight we should go check them out so we can get that Native Tongue love."  "Yo, where is the Jungle Brothers at?"  They was like, "yo don't ask me about Jungle Brothers, Jungle Brothers are on the run, ahonetwo, ahonetwo."  You know they dissed us on that "Breakadawn."  Like we was doing something wrong.

ThaFormula.com - Did you ever try to reach out to them?

A.F.R.I.C.A. - Well, we did the record "How You Want It, We Got It" where we tried to bring everybody together and then Pos apologized for that record and you know he was the one who was like, "Native Tongues has been reinstated."

ThaFormula.com - Yeah I heard that on the De La album and was wondering about that...

A.F.R.I.C.A. - What was up with reinstated? You just put your foot in your own mouth with reinstated.  Even when you dissed us, we was like "yo, well whatever."

ThaFormula.com - I'm not gonna lie, I still hope that it will happen man...

A.F.R.I.C.A. - Because when it comes together on stage it's natural, it's genuine, it's beautiful. But when it's off stage, and it ain't happening and not only is it beautiful but it grows.  It helps us all grow, but that's the thing they don't wanna see.  They are not concerned about everyone growing as much as they're concerned about themselves growing.  Like Mase was tellin' me when we went through some management stuff and we got somebody to manage us, he was like "yo I'm glad you all got a manager 'cause you all need somebody to just concentrate on y'all for real."  I'm like, "why cause y'all so selfish that that's how y'all think?"  Now we don't even use management.  We manage ourselves and we still doing our thang.  Without a record deal and without being a slave.  They still trying to get record deals and be slaves and shoot videos and be looking all like bafoons in the video.

ThaFormula.com - Yo, be sure to check out the Jungle Brothers website www.jbeez.com for album and tour info.  Support the originators of this hip hop shit by never forgetting where it came from and who it came from. 

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