thaformula.com - So you returned to fight in Pride's "Bushido" show and pulled out a KO win over Tomomi Iwama and then you returned to fight in Pride's "Bushido 9" against Sakurai, how did you feel heading into that fight and what happened in that fight?

Jens "Little Evil" Pulver - Ahh you know the wizard picked me apart. He just ate me up and that's when I started really beating myself up with you know "I am starting to get to one dimensional. I'm getting way too caught up in this with me just standing there and striking," Sakurai showed it. He treated me like a little kid and just ate me apart. Granted I had my moments where I almost put him away. I got scratched in the eye where if they would have given me a second and they had looked at it the fight would have been stopped. I lost all of the meat in front of my pupil. I had a big hole in my eye and I was blind for about 2 months, had an eye patch, surgery the whole nine to get my vision corrected. But no excuses, I went out there started throwing and he just ate me up. I don't think in no way was I out, I just knew when I landed on my knees I was like "uh oh, here comes the kicks to the head" and I just started moving my head side to side and I tried to go to guard and sat on that one leg and then he started doing these little hammer punches and I said "okay I can try and block those and keep trying to improve my position." But then they stopped it and I looked up and threw my hands up like "are you kidding me? Come on man., I go can I die in this ring first please. Can I be laid out unconscious or something?" The guys got me in a tough position, I'm stuck, I'm sitting on my legs he's and throwing these little jackhammer punches. I mean what am I supposed to do? Stand there and block them all or try and get position or whatever? But the reality is leading up to that point, he just had a great game plan and he just picked me apart. He just beat me down and that's all there is to it.

thaFormula.com - You know now that you bring up the eye situation, do you think that something needs to be done about the whole accidental eye poke thing? It just seems like eye pokes are becoming so common now in fights and it seems to be affecting the fights a little…

Jens "Little Evil" Pulver - Well I remember asking them later on. I was like "you know I have never complained, I have never faked an injury, I have never acted hurt when I wasn't." When I'm sitting there holding my eye, he'll throw a combination and I'll go back to rubbing my eye and then in the next fight I see two guys fight and the guy gets poked in the eye and they stop and they let him get it looked at in the corner. I'm like, "not me." I'm not one of your legends so I don't get that break, okay no problem. But you know it was clear I was hurt, it was clear that the poke in the eye was affecting me. I was rubbing it. I would throw one punch and go right back to rubbing my eye. Could you have given me those 5 seconds that I felt with as many fights that I have been in, wars I have been in? I know it's not illegal to stop it and let the doctor look at it and put something in it. Maybe there is something stuck in my eye. They could have given me a second, I didn't need a break, I wasn't like "ooh I need water, I don't need to talk to my corner, my eye is killing me." And you know when the adrenaline left and I was trying to do the interview, oh my god, it was like there was a rock in my eye. I never felt nothing like it, I had to leave the interview. There was something dead wrong because it burned my eye. Then I finally closed my good eye and all I could see is black. I couldn't see anything. I couldn't see my right hand unless it was all the way out in front of me.

thaFormula.com - I have seen this happen to Couture, Tito, Karo, you and various others, do you think something needs to be done or a rule needs to be put in place for this situation?

Jens "Little Evil" Pulver - Well I think you know if somebody goes straight to flinching and straight to grabbing their eyeball, hey if it looks like it could have been a poke and the guy has been out there fighting his butt off and if all of a sudden in the middle of an exchange he goes "Ahh my eye, my eye." Find out because I ended up having a real injury. It didn't get made worse by the fight but the reality is when Couture fought and Vitor hit him, he got a little cut in his eye and they stopped the fight. I had a massive hole over the front of my pupil. When they showed me in the x-ray I was like "oh man it was gigantic hole!" At least I knew why I was burning. It was just the most pain I ever went through and it was just a nightmare.

thaFormula.com - So you came back and won your next fight in Pride and your contract was up with them, what happened next?

Jens "Little Evil" Pulver - I chose to leave and I did a fight in the IFL.

thaFormula.com - What were your thoughts of the IFL at the time and what are your thoughts of the IFL in general now?

Jens "Little Evil" Pulver - It's a show. The team aspect is fun for me only because I'm a wrestler. I came from a wrestling background. I like the idea of having duel matches and things. It was as close to professional wrestling as we were ever gonna get and so it was just a chance you know to be around my whole team again. Because for so long with so many successful fighters in our gym, everybody's so spread out when they fight, they got other commitments and things like that with everyone getting older and we never really got to sit around and just be together again and you know just hang out and do our thing. So that part was really fun and of course it was a new show and I asked if Pat had a team and if so I was behind that. Also they were gonna give me a chance to commentate, I love that and it was fun. I'm glad they gave me an opportunity because I got to come home and be back in the United States and I was happy to do so.

thaFormula.com - And you ended up winning that fight against Cole Escovedo by KO in the first round. At this point the UFC calls you up, was the win in the IFL a big reason for them calling you up?

Jens "Little Evil" Pulver - I don't know. I know Dana had always said one thing to me back in the day. When they had more TV time, when they got on TV, when they could do more fights, they were gonna bring the lightweight division back and he's a man of his word. Because he brought me back and he brought the weight class back. I think it was just timing. The Ultimate Fighter was on Spike, they were getting bigger, they had fight nights on Spike and here we come. We got the 155-pound division back and why not have the man who started it and the only champion they ever had come back? It sounded perfect and it looked good on paper.

thaFormula.com - When they called you was it just for the fight or was it also for the TV show?

Jens "Little Evil" Pulver - There was a lot of talk. They had a lot of plans and ideas of what they wanted to do. They had a lot of high hopes for me when I came back. Never losing in the octagon, being the only champion, just go in there and take a fight against this young kid Joe Lauzon and you know do the show and get back in there for the title as soon as possible.

thaFormula.com - So with all these plans, how were you feeling? I mean this is what you had been waiting for and it all started with Joe Lauzon. Were you really training hard for this fight with Joe?

Jens "Little Evil" Pulver - I mean I trained but I'm not perfect. I battle depression and things of that nature. Everyday is always something. You train as hard as you can but sometimes you're just going through the motions, whatever it might be. I can't make no excuses. Was I 110 percent, no, I mean look at the ring around my stomach. Hell no I wasn't in great shape.

thaFormula.com - But wasn't this what had you been waiting for since you left the UFC?

Jens "Little Evil" Pulver - This was what I waited for. I was just so happy to be back I couldn't even begin to tell you.

thaFormula.com - So why didn't you do the training that you should have if you were so happy?

Jens "Little Evil" Pulver - Again, I trained. Did I train as intently as I used to? No. I trained as hard as I could mentally at that time but mentally I just wasn't there. I went through the motions but I just wasn't there. It was just all so surreal. It wasn't real to me. It wasn't like legitimately being back because I hadn't been back yet so it was just you know going through the motions. Now I'm in the UFC, okay I can't wait, I'm excited, I'm happy. I'm going to go out there and I'm just going to throw down and I'm going to fight. You know along the line everyday sometimes you wake up and you're not in the mood and other days you wake up and you're in the mood. But the battle man, the warrior, the desire or whatever you want to call it just have never been the same. Too many losses, too many wars in the ring, I don't know what it was. Am I done, am I washed up? I don't know. I was just happy to be back at the time.

thaFormula.com - So when you walked down towards the octagon again so many years later, was it a strange and different feeling now and did it just not feel the same anymore?

Jens "Little Evil" Pulver - Yeah it just felt good to be back. All the great shows that I have watched since I been gone, The Ultimate Fighter coming out, all these new fighters, new attitudes, just a whole new face change, different crowd, bigger crowd, just the whole nine. To finally be back it was like starting over. It was like "wow this is so much different." Seeing all the wars Hughes has been in, seeing all these people having great fights in there and things like that, it was just surreal to be able to come back and be back in the UFC. It was just a dream come true, one that I never thought would come true.

thaformula.com - So when the bell rang and the fight started, was it a big shock to you when he knocked you out?

Jens "Little Evil" Pulver - Yeah, it was devastating. Truth was, he wrecked me. He got after me and exploded on me. I just got trucked. I don't know maybe I was expecting a slow start, maybe I thought we would sit there and kind of jab it out a little bit. Whatever it was, his game plan was flawless. It was perfect. He was an aggressive kid, he was hungry and he was there to make a statement. I was just there. I was just there to wave to the crowd like "what's up, hey." That's all it was and what could I say afterwards. I'll die in this ring and I got no excuses. I got punched, I got beat. The better man won, maybe. But at that point I thought everything was over. I thought I just blew everything. Can I cry about it? No. Because I did it, I just blew everything and threw it all away. That's truly how I felt. I don't know what I was doing and I don't know what happened. But you know I could only thank Dana, Zuffa and the UFC because they still gave me that coaching job and still let me be a part of something. They still went off my merit. It's almost like they gave me a pass. They were like "okay you had seven fights in this octagon and you went 6-0 and 1 you know, they didn't believe that that was me. They believed that I was a better fighter and that I had more to offer. They believed that that fight was not the end of me. They had a great rival with BJ Penn and me. BJ agreed to come in for season 5; he wanted to be a coach so we went off of that. We went off of the fact that we have been here the longest, we had a good rivalry between us, we had a good fight the first time and they said now its time to go out there put on your coaching cap and introduce the world to the 155lb division on the Ultimate Fighter and they said "you guys are gonna fight afterwards." So it felt perfect.

thaformula.com - How did you feel about being a coach and now that you have been through it, is that something you might want to think about in the future?

Jens "Little Evil" Pulver - Yeah I loved it. I had a good time. I remember when I first went in there, I just kept thinking "what am I gonna show these guys? What are they going to really want to learn from me? I lost to a guy who is on the show uh, am I a joke. What are they gonna do, they are gonna look at me and go 'whatever'." Say what your gonna say but whatever." So I went in there with the idea that they ain't gonna listen to me, they ain't gonna believe in me, I'm just wasting my time. I think after the whole "raise your hand" deal; it just showed me that other people thought the same thing. So right then, I made a commitment. The 8 guys I got I looked at them in the face and said "hey the bottom line, do as I say not as I do. I fight one way, I've had my losses, I've been beat but I've been around a lot of great people and a lot of great fights. I have seen a lot of things and I know how to get you ready. If you give me that opportunity and we work together I'm gonna do everything I can to show you" and that's basically all it was.

thaformula.com - Do you feel that the loss to you still eats Penn up inside?

Jens "Little Evil" Pulver - I think it does. I think what really eats him up is just the fact that it's always been talked about. It's been a long time. If BJ had his way, we would be fighting right now. We would have been fighting the next day. BJ is a warrior like that. We would have thrown down right on the spot. I think with that being said, he's just been waiting long enough. He was just ready to shut me up, beat me up and show the world that the first time around was not the BJ Penn he had become. So definitely he's fired up and ready to go. So it worked out good for him. I'm ready to fight him again. I'm here to let him know that "I'm not ducking you." What's there to duck? I was the big underdog the first time. I was the guy that was supposed to get smoked, rolled up, lit up whatever and I didn't. So we're here to do it again alright, I'm just as amped about it as he is believe it. But you know I just felt that he didn't respect me. I felt maybe because like I said I spent so much time beating myself up about it, maybe I wasn't that good. Maybe I could have done this, I could have done that. Been a little more exciting, whatever, I just felt like he had no respect for me as a fighter and he had no respect for me as a coach. So it gave me somebody again to say "alright I'm gonna shove it in your face, watch this." So that's what I did.

thaformula.com - Watching the Penn that fights today, is he still the same fighter you fought or are you fighting someone that is ten times better then the Penn that you fought?

Jens "Little Evil" Pulver - I'm fighting someone that is much better. I'm fighting a guy that is a lot better and he's a lot more experienced, a lot hungrier and he's got a lot more patience. There is people that talk about his conditioning and things like that but the reality is this guy can fight and he has just gotten better. You know I fought him when he was starting and now he has a ton more fights and he's been up to different weight classes, fought the best guys he could get his hands on. He's tough, he's extremely tough. I've lost to people I shouldn't have lost to. Some people think I'm washed up, some people think I'm done as a fighter or whatever it might be, but we will find out. That's why we did this, that's why they made the show the way they did. That's why they are going to put us on the same finale as the guys who made it to the finals. He gets his rematch and I get to show the world that I'm not done.

thaformula.com - How has your training been going for this fight and has everything been going good injury wise, mentally, etc. How are you feeling and how is it going?

Jens "Little Evil" Pulver - The best I have ever felt. I have had plenty of time to sit back and contemplate on what happened to me in this first fight with Lauzon. I have had six and a half weeks to sit there and play this mental game and do this reality show with BJ Penn and all the 155 pounders. I have had enough wasted time. I have gone through the motions long enough. You know my brother said it best, "I'm done being the ball man and it's time to start being the bat" and I haven't trained like this in I don't even know how long. It's been a long time. It's a free feeling and I'm excited, I'm hungry and I'm ready to show everybody that cares or is concerned or just wants to see it, that I ain't washed up. Not by a long shot, not even close. And if I could here at the end, and it's a small plug but there is a new book, the best book that was written about me that just came out. So if anybody wants to just kind of read more about where I come from, what I've been through and things like that they can go to www.jenspulver.com and it's get it. The book is called "NEVER." I'm pretty proud of it and I'm proud of the guy who wrote it and like I said it's been out now for a few weeks and it's a good book. The other book that was written I liked, but it was more fact based, step-by-step. This book is all the way up 'til now and everything I've gone through and it's more about the mental side of it. It's really getting to know me and who I am on the mental side. It's about me and who I am, what I've been through, what I've done and Tim did just an unreal job in my eyes. I'm proud of this book and I think it let's people know the whole nine you know, like the battles with depression and the whole thing. People that have read it so far haven't been disappointed. So I'm definitely proud of it.

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