thaFormula.com - If you were a debut artist Tech and you were dropping "Industrial Revolution" in 2007, what do you think the biggest difference would be dropping now as compared to then?

Immortal Technique - Well I think this wasn't really popularized back then and I think people forget how pussy they was. Mad rappers that used to rap about Allah and stuff or shout out his name; all of a sudden I saw all of that detracted out of Hip-Hop so all them lessons, all the knowledge and niggaz was just avoiding that. You know there was some people that definitely didn't and I got to give it up to the muthafuckas that didn't take that route but there are a lot of people that tried to sanitize their image and didn't want nothing to do with that or the labels didn't permit them to make the type of music that they wanted to.

thaFormula.com - That's true.

Immortal Technique - I think people forget that in the beginning, this wasn't so poppin'. It's like cool to be against the government and people have these delusions about what it actually means to have beef with the feds. Shut up nigga! You don't want no drama with the feds homie, 'cause them niggaz ain't gonna indict you, they are gonna indict your mother you know, that's how the feds are. They will indict your mother, they will indict your grandmother, and they will indict your father and whoever is connected with you. Whoever they know they can get you through just to make you cop out and they don't give you that 5 to 10, they give you that straight time and in months to make you feel like dirt. Like here is 500 months, bye.

thaFormula.com - Were you surprised at how many people after 9/11 just shut up?

Immortal Technique - I really didn't care. To me, I have always been the type of person that as much as I see people and it disappoints me when they do things, its not my place to tell them about themselves, I'm not their father, I ain't raised them in the streets so what am I gonna tell them? Let them live there own life and I will do me. I was focused on making my music as strong as I possibly could, and on building my own studio.

thaFormula.com - If you were starting out as a new artist today with the way the market is oversaturated...

Immortal Technique - I wouldn't (Laughs). If I got paroled tomorrow I would pick another field. Its not that I discourage people from rhyming, is just that when I look at the game right now, I just see how many more carbon copied people are developing. It's more like the industry has decided to clone the idea of a revolutionary rapper because they think it can make them money. They don't care about the message, it has no meaning to them. If they can sell records that's all that matters and they will sell it to people that are stupid enough to buy it. Even things that make fun of them, even things that belittle them. Like there was a record called "Does Your Chain Hang Low?" It comes from a minstrel theme called "Do Your Ears Hang Low" where white people used to dress up in black face and basically mock Africans that were brought here. The young brother that did it was on an interview where he said, "hey look I didn't know, that's from an ice cream truck theme." Alright dog, but you think the white man who owns your label, you think a person like that who has been making music for dumb years, you think that everybody doesn't know what that is? They are not stupid, they've been making music for 60 years.

thaFormula.com - And will continue making music…

Immortal Technique - That's why I don't get angry when major radio don't take my record and takes some other stuff. It's not just that, they don't know if I'm gonna be in business for another 10 years, where as they've been in business with a person who hands them the major record and pays them for the past 40 years and probably for the next 40 years.

thaFormula.com - Well let's just say you are a new artist who has built a nice little independent buzz in 2007, what should an artist look at when the majors start throwing contracts and numbers at you?

Immortal Technique - See for me it was different because I came up in an era when battling meant something. Now no one cares. You could have won a battle on MTV or BET and you know what homie, nobody cares! They only care if you can sell records on your own, that's what they care about. Why do you think people are buzzing about the independent scene right now, because that's the only way a record label is gonna sign you.

thaFormula.com - I agree.

Immortal Technique - Ill give you an example. A record label is a corporation. Corporations don't buy ideas they just buy other corporations. If I went up to Rupert Murdoch at Fox News Corp. or whoever over there and said, "hey I got this great idea its called Myspace and everybody meets each other and talks to each other and they communicate and there is mad girls on there and you could advertise and there is mad fans and there is music, this is my great idea," and they would probably say, "oh that's very nice, what do you want? You want to sell us this great idea? We'll give you a thousand dollars, now get the hell out of here." But if I build Myspace and I put 50 million people on it, put all these artists on and I develop it into a major site where people go to hear artists music that aren't famous, that are bubbling and major artists as well and make it so that the person seems attainable so it seems as if they are reachable which is a very big thing since celebrity is the new crack in America, if you make it seem as if you could actually send a message to them and it has that sort of feel then I could make the type of deal that Myspace made which is to sell my company for 5 million dollars. That's what they want. They want you to already have your company set up.

thaFormula.com - Right.

Immortal Technique - The days where you are gonna come in with a little song and dance and rap in front of some major executive, I can't see any of them being stupid enough to be like "alright I'm gonna give you a shot" where as someone who comes into their office right after you and you did your song and dance and your freestyle is dope, who cares nigga 'cause the next person that comes in this office is an artist that sold 100,000 units on his own whether he's from the South, the West coast or from the Midwest and he's saying "yo look I sold 100,000 on my own Soundscan, independent. Gimme a shot." Who do you think he's gonna pick? Who would the smart man pick? I'll tell you who the fuck I would pick!

thaFormula.com - No doubt, I would pick the dude that sold 100,000 without even thinking about.

Immortal Technique - That's what you have to do and that's what you have to build. You can't sell these people an idea no more if that's what you wanna do, or if you wanna sell yourself because that's the bottom line with a lot of these people today. It ain't about the culture and I'm not mad at you. If you wanna feed your family and get your paper, congratulations and I don't say this to hate on nobody. That's the biggest misconception from little faggot ass niggaz on the internet or muthafuckas on the street that don't know how deep I roll. Believe me homie, when I come to L.A. you will know. When you see me in New York, muthafucka you will know. I don't say this to hate or shit on nobody's dreams. I say this so you will have a clear and present understanding of what you are facing when you come into the industry because I want nothing but to see my people have success and have money and be able to redistribute that and make a commitment to investing in our peoples infrastructure, instead of just sending money or dumb shit.

thaFormula.com - I feel you on that…

Immortal Technique - I say this so that people understand, look when you step in here, these are the steps you are gonna have to take in order for them to really look at you. Like you're somebody because if all you wanna do is get your money and keep it moving, that's fine, but realize that if you don't own yourself then the amount of money that you are gonna be able to make of off yourself has already been decided. Like this is my problem with Reggaeton. I love the music, its cool. People insult it because it disses women but I've heard people that do something real with it. But if it's all music and all art, then how come we don't own the masters and the publishing? Every time I say this everybody that works for Spanish language stuff, they always try to brush the question aside, they don't wanna talk about because they know I'm right and you know what, their white bosses are putting pressure on them to be like "hey don't talk to him man, you don't want him up in here." Yeah your god damn right you don't want me up in here 'cause you start realizing you don't own shit about yourself. So I mean I'm just telling niggaz like, please own yourself homie.

thaFormula.com - I always like to talk about the publishing and master's situation with artists, can you break that down for people that ain't knowing the seriousness of that?

Immortal Technique - It's the catalog that follows you everywhere. If you have a certain album sometimes you don't even collect the royalties for what you sell if you don't have that paperwork. Sometimes you don't even collect performance rights. Like when you perform somewhere at a big place that is registered then the company itself collects money for you doing the show, you feel me? Whenever your single is plays on the radio 50 years from now, you don't collect that money, they do. Where as individuals that are smart enough to own their masters and their publishing still make money off of that. Think about that, there are company's right that now that's making money off of a song that was written 30 years ago that's on the radio right now. That's longevity. You ask any black artist that was around during the birth of Rock & Roll, they don't have that. I mean there is a movement now and there are people that are reclaiming their masters here and there. That's something that they didn't wanna give up.

thaFormula.com - That's why I like to always speak on this with artists…

Immortal Technique - The RIAA which is basically the puppet of major labels, they are over here complaining about mix tapes and yet they are trying to lower the royalty rates for artists right now. So you have to realize that if your not here for the culture that's fine, whatever nigga get your money. I don't criticize nobody for doing them. I don't tell nobody to rhyme about what I rhyme about. That's not the point. If everybody rhymed about what I rhyme about, Hip-Hop would be boring. I love the fact that there is diversity and there are people that wanna make something for the girls and the clubs and there is people that wanna talk about what they see in they hood and people wanna talk about their experience as a drug dealer for 16 albums. I don't care, but if you don't own that then how can you consider yourself a man? Like there are people that I know right now that are in the industry that are struggling to reclaim that and saying "well let me get a percentage of it," and that's even a tough thing. It's like getting a piece of yourself back like "damn I finally have my masters, half my publishing and now I'm getting these checks and I'm starting to realize how much this shit is really worth."

thaFormula.com - Now you and Dead Prez were holding it down hard before and after 9/11, as you see so many more artists jump on the "political" or "conscious" movement it seems like it has almost become like a trend…

Immortal Technique - Yeah, but I think people understand who does this for real and who is just here to try and benefit off of it and play little games. Like look, I just came back from a conference that the ACLU was throwing where they talk about the government's illegal use of informants or snitches and all the laws that are being passed and the fact that the federal right now has 100 million dollar budget for the year 2007 for immigrant informants. Which means they allocate money to be given to people for snitching on other people in their neighborhood, for saying they are an illegal immigrant. There is no documentation of where this money goes, so it very well just could be payouts and handouts and a whole bunch of nepotistic money exchanges between individuals that are involved in the federal government so this is what I'm talking about. This is what I'm dealing with on a day to day.

thaFormula.com - I feel you…

Immortal Technique - I was supposed to go to the Pentagon on Saturday and speak at this A.N.S.W.E.R. coalition thing and do like a brief show. You know I got thrown out by Pentagon police. Like I'm not sitting here trying to perpetrate a fraud or pretend like I'm more important then I am. I just have a lot of drama because I put my life, my reputation, and my family's life on this. If that's what you wanna do homie, if that's the life you wanna live then man brother I will teach you anything that I know because I'ma need somebody to be better then me. I'ma need somebody to carry this when I'm gone. I'm not gonna be around forever. Eventually they will get tired of me so if somebody really wants to do this and somebody really sees what I'm starting or what I'm continuing and wants to continue it even further, I'm not mad at that, but I'm just letting them know that look, its not what its cracked up to be. You know I don't do this so I could pick up girls at the communist meetings. First of all, I'm not even a communist and second of all, I look at it like it's not for stripes in the hood. You know people kind of resent you. Like when I talk to gang members whether they be bloods or crips or Mexicans or Salvadorians you know what I talk to them about? The history of their nation and the massacres that occurred in El Salvador during their Civil War where the United states was funneling 1.8 billion dollars into the country setting up paramilitary death squads. You know when we deal with information like that, there are people from our own people that resent that. They will be like "oh why you telling these kids that, oh I need them to do this work for me and this work and you are trying to take them away." I'm like "brother I'm not trying to take them away from you out of your power, but realize that your power as capo is dwindling now homie. The feds are on you and you're about to be out of here if you don't restructure your organization, your as good as dead. If you don't evolve as a gang into an organization." Think about it, the record business itself is run by Jewish and Italian gangsters. It still is to some degree. They went and legitimized themselves. Irish people came here as gangs, Italians, all these people. All these Europeans found a way to legitimize themselves and make an industry for themselves that they control and right now we haven't done that. All we do is pick vegetables and work in every kitchen. In every Italian restaurant, Thai restaurant, all these famous restaurants, go in the kitchen and I bet you there is a Mexican, a Guatemalan or a Salvadorian in there. We are cooking all your food, we are doing everything for you and we are not even unionized. So what the fuck do we have?

thaFormula.com - Yeah no doubt. Every time I look in the kitchen I'll always see one of my peoples up in there…

Immortal Technique - But that's what I'm saying. It's like it really makes you think like "wow they are charging 50 dollars a plate, but it's the same nigga from the other spot." What is he from a part of Guadalajara that raises gourmet chefs! He's the same nigga! So its just an embarrassment to me when people don't realize how much of an industry we have in front of us that we haven't developed and I say this to gangs and there are people that are resentful about that and then there are leaders among those gangs that say "yo this nigga is right and he's not trying to lead us or take everything over, he's just trying to talk to the seeds and he wants to talk to us." Just 'cause I don't agree with everything you say or 'cause people don't agree with everything I say, that's not a cause for people to hate each other or ignore each other. You know we are trying to get out the dirt right now? That's what we should be doing. You think all capitalists get along with each other? You think all companies like each other? You think all white people liked each other? Absolutely not. Shit, white people used to enslave each other. They used to call it futilism back in the day in the Middle Ages, but its slavery.

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