thaFormula.com - So you got your first title defense out of the way and up next came your biggest fight to date, your fight with BJ Penn. At the time Penn had knocked out his first 3 opponents including Uno, and Din Thomas and they all were first round knockouts, how worried were you in facing a guy that people felt was unstoppable at the time?

Jens "Little Evil" Pulver - I was extremely worried. I mean I had heard about how great he was, Frank Shamrock was boasting about him and how this kid is a sponge, how he is the most decorated Jiu Jitsu practitioner in the United States. And yet here he is one of the most lethal guys on the ground and he is knocking everybody out standing up. He had put Uno down in like 12 seconds. Everybody was telling me "there is no way you are gonna make it one round with this guy. What are you gonna do? You gonna beat him standing up when he's knocking everybody out or you gonna try and beat him on the ground where he's submitting everybody?" So I just shut it off and started training. There was nothing I could do, I was nothing special. I didn't have anything flashy and any great credentials but I was the champ. I was the champion that will slow you down and I'm gonna whale on you. I'm gonna drag it out. I'm gonna take you to deep waters and I'm gonna drown you and that's what I had to do. Get out there and just get after him.

thaFormula.com - At that time did you figure that the one thing you had over him was experience?

Jens "Little Evil" Pulver - I didn't know if I had experience, but what I did know is that I had the belt and I had belief in myself and I had a great camp. I didn't care where he came from, I didn't care what he did, I didn't care what he did to other people because the reality was he didn't do it to me and if he wanted to do it to me then hey let's find out. That was all there is to it. There was nothing special about it, if you wanna beat me, beat me. But your gonna have to have one magical day to do it and that's really how I looked at it.

thaFormula.com - So going into that fight and walking into that ring, were you feeling good and did the training go injury free leading up to the fight?

Jens "Little Evil" Pulver - Yeah everything was dead on. I felt great, my training camp went extremely well. I was confident. I was definitely happy and I was ready to fight. There was nothing to worry about. Just get out there and get it done, whatever happens, happens and you can't sit there and worry about it because you don't know what's gonna happen. Just go out there and fight the best you could fight and see what happens when the dust clears.

thaFormula.com - So you go out there and he gets the arm bar on you at the end of the second round, what was going through your head when he actually got the mount?

Jens "Little Evil" Pulver - I knew how much time was left but when he got the mount I was like "oh man, there is still 2 minutes left, how am I gonna keep this guy off me, how am I gonna get him off me, what am I gonna do to let John know, hey don't stop it?" Don't let this guy do these little pity-pat flurries and stop this fight. So when John said "hey, let me know you're in it," I was throwing punches. I threw everything like "hey I'm in a bad position but I'm not done, I'm here" and I remember Jeremy yelling "6 seconds" when he went for that arm bar. So I was trying to get that time off and I remember him getting that arm straight with about 2 seconds left and I'm like "oh dear lord" and I was just like you know "snap it if you have to, whatever you got to do, break it but I'm not tapping with 2 seconds left" and that's when people were yelling "oh he tapped, he tapped." No, I just knew when the bell was gonna ring and as soon as it did I said alright he didn't get it. Hey he almost got it, almost but luckily the round ended and I had another chance to come back and try again.

thaFormula.com - So you got out of the round and walked back to your corner, What was going on in your corner when you got back there?

Jens "Little Evil" Pulver - They were just getting on me about this and that and I just remember telling myself, "good god what am I gonna do? I'm gonna walk back out here in the third round and he's gonna take me down and get the mount and tear me up again." I'm like "what am I gonna do with this guy, what the heck?" I was just beat and I just remember seeing that kid over there jumping up and down with the Hawaiian flag doing the cut throat saying "oh your dead, your dead." I just remember looking at him and just going "no way." I'm looking at him going "no way, no way. I go that guy right there, right there, I'm wrecking his day." I go "no way, he's never getting on top of me again." I go "this ain't happening" and I go "I'm the champ and I'm gonna get out there and get after this guy." I had to tell myself man. I had to have a conversation with me real quick like "hey let's go, get after this guy come on now." That's basically all it was. Just a quick re-vamp. It was something that triggered in my head, got me fired up and got me ready to go.

thaFormula.com - It seems like back then you were one of the very few who had any type of boxing skills in MMA, do you think that played a big role in those later rounds against Penn?

Jens "Little Evil" Pulver - Yeah I think for me though it was the courage to get out there and the idea to want to be able to box. To want to be able to hit this guy, the willingness to be able to exchange punches. Hey if I got to take 3 to get one so be it. I always had that in me and I had the confidence. If they hit me with a shot and the lights go out, so be it, but I had the confidence. I had a love for standing up and no matter what it took I was gonna make it work and that's all it was. I mean he had hit me with a hook that swelled my eye up, swelled my nose up. Hey that's just one shot, let's keep going. I'm still here, I'm still standing, let's keep fighting. I just kept pushing for that opportunity to keep this fight standing and when the 5th round comes and he gave up on the takedowns, my arms started loosening up. I started dialing in and hitting him with that combination that bothered him. I had him you know and I was trying to put him away and the biggest thing though was the conditioning. Everyday training with these guys being pushed day in and day out so I was ready to go.

thaFormula.com - So do you consider that to be your biggest and hardest win to date?

Jens "Little Evil" Pulver - Yeah, almost. Down the road I had one that was probably the greatest fight I've ever been involved in.

thaFormula.com - So now you beat BJ Penn and everybody that the UFC could throw at you, but your contract was up and you decided to leave the UFC right?

Jens "Little Evil" Pulver - Yeah and it was something that haunted me and ended up being something later on that I regretted, but at the time I felt that I made the right decision. I just felt like there was more to be done and I left. I had a disagreement and we just couldn't work it out.

thaFormula.com - Once you left, you went on to fight and win decisions over Robert Emerson and Takehiro Murahama. What was it like to go from fighting as the champ in the UFC to back fighting at the smaller shows again permanently?

Jens "Little Evil" Pulver - Miserable. I've been hurt ever since. It was just not the right thing to do. It was bad.

thaFormula.com - After those decisions you went on to fight Duane Ludwig and got knocked out, were you even training or feeling like you used to at that point?

Jens "Little Evil" Pulver - No. I think inside I was emotionally pouting and I just wasn't the same. There was always something different from that day you know, there was just something missing and I had to carry that with me for a long time. Then I get knocked out twice and before you know it, your fighting for 800 bucks and trying to start over and figure out what went wrong and what happened. I think with Duane Ludwig catching me the way he did, it opened my eyes. I didn't know jack about boxing. I liked to stand up, I liked to bang, I liked to punch. But he knew how I was coming. He rifled me with the right hand and I wasn't awake the rest of that fight. The next fight I shouldn't have even done it. But I did. I didn't even wanna be there, whatever. He went out there and just hit me with a whirlwind, blew me across with an elbow. He must have landed ten knees just rifling me on the ground and it was over. I didn't care. I was just too busy pouting.

thaFormula.com - Now you had just come off of 2 KO losses, how did it feel when you would read and hear from people that they felt you were finished and washed up as a fighter?

Jens "Little Evil" Pulver - You know I started to believe them. I was like "maybe I am, maybe I'm done." That's when I found Alley Cat boxing. That's when I said "okay, I found my rehab center." I went in there and said "hey, I don't really have much going on, I'd like to start training" and Peretti took me in and I just started boxing plain and simple. 22 to 30 rounds a day training left and right. Everyday boxing, boxing, boxing and it was fun. That's when the UFC started blowing up, more and more people started getting in the UFC from my team. Matt Hughes had won a title and everybody was exploding. UFC was getting big, our gym was getting big and I was on my way out. So it was hard for me to choose. Not that I didn't love them, not that I wasn't happy, but it was hard for me to find the reason to even keep going without kicking myself in the butt everyday. Everyday I started to go over to that boxing gym and I found an inner peace where I was happy. I realized that "you know what it ain't about fame, it ain't about titles, this is my job, this what I do for a living" and I needed to find something or otherwise just quit. And I found it over there at Alley Cat boxing.

thaformula.com - In your next fight you went up against Joe Jordan, how prepared were you now mentally and how different was your striking now?

Jens Pulver - I was ready absolutely and my striking was now a million times better. Throwing straight shots, good defense, being able to bang inside. Being able to set him up, stiff jab, I mean everything was different. I had been winging it before knocking myself off balance, leaning too far forward. Just everything was completely different. I was learning and I was starting to become a standup fighter at that point.

thaformula.com - So you won that fight and then your next 3 after that with your last one being a 3 round fight against Stephen Palling, was that a tough fight for you?

Jens Pulver - That's without a doubt the hardest fight I was ever in. I was down at 143, it was the weight I belong at. I'm 145 pounder. So being at 143 was perfect. I was boxing at 147 and I think I was 5-0. So going into the fight I remember them telling me, "hey smart money, take this guy down, go after submissions, and control him on the ground." I'm like, "okay sounds good." I go out there and the first exchange, he rifles me in the head and I threw that right out the window. No that's not happening, I'm gonna knock this guy out or he's gonna knock me out and that's what I was gonna do. We were gonna fight and I never been hit so hard. He hit me sometimes so hard I wish to god it would have knocked me out. I was just like "oh my god this guy is throwing bullets" and in the second round my jab started coming into play and that's when I really started utilizing my jab. Throwing that jab and swelling that eye up. Then going into the third round, I remember I was just kind of in a daze, my body was killing me and I just thought this is insane. And he comes out with a hard right hand, I slipped underneath it, fired a left, wobbled him, and threw 2 jabs, I knew he was gonna come off the ropes and when he did, boom! Threw a left hand and knocked him out.

thaformula.com - Now you talk about this fight like you really loved it, was this the type of fight that you really enjoyed despite the pain?

Jens Pulver - In that fight it was because everything was right. Mentally everything was right. I was in shape, I was happy, mentally I felt great. I knew I had to take some to give some and I was just out there in the middle of just an unbelievable fight with a guy that I respect to no end. Later on he and I got to sit down on the beach actually a couple of months ago we got to talk and we were just going over the fight, just laughing at this point. Talking about this and that. It was the first time I ever walked out after a fight limping, there was no real celebrating. They raised my hand but I was so beat up that I didn't know what to think. I think for me to uh, you know my brother had just gotten out of prison and he never got to see me fight. He was there ringside and he was just blown away by it. My whole family was there and it was just one of those days where everything is right with the world and you feel complete. So yeah, I was happy to take the shots and I was happy to be in the middle of a war. Sometimes when you're mentally not there, your just not feeling it. Sometimes its just like you reach into your tank and your like "man I got no fuel." I knew I had the fuel, I felt good. I knew I just had to keep coming back harder. He comes at me, I got to come harder, he comes, I got to go harder and its just one of those days man where everything is just perfect. To this day when people ask me what's your best fight, that was it. That was hands down the best fight I have ever been in. It was perfect.

thaformula.com - So you now were at 4 straight wins and things seemed to be going good for you now. Did Pride approach you about fighting Takanori Gomi?

Jens Pulver - Yeah and it was one of those things where I was still weighing low because I didn't know if I was fighting at 143 or if I was gonna fight Gomi at 160 and at the last minute we said "yeah let's take the Gomi fight." So I came in weighing 148 pounds and that was one of those fights where I knew there was no way he was gonna take me down, but I was so worried about his takedowns that I would hesitate. I would throw a couple of shots and it was a good boxing display at both ends. We were both beating the mess out of each other but I had to sit there and worry about his takedowns. He didn't sit there and worry about mine and he just threw with reckless abandon. I remember going into the 7th or 8th minute and I'm thinking "good god, I need to be sitting down because I'm used to the 5 minute rounds." You know it's dragging and all of a sudden those shots were hurting. I remember when he hit me and falling on my butt dazed but I was still there kind of looking and I remember the referee waving it off right there. I was like "ah man, I got caught, no problem."

thaformula.com - It was a great fight though. I mean you guys were really going at it…

Jens Pulver - Yeah we were getting after it and it was one of those things where I enjoyed it, I was out there to throw down and I can't say that I didn't give 100 percent so I can't really beat myself up about it and I wish I could have done some things differently but that's the way I chose to fight and that's the way the fight went.

thaformula.com - Is the 10 minute first round in Pride a huge factor for someone used to 5 minute rounds?

Jens Pulver - It is if you don't train for it. I think it is deliberately designed to finish fights in the first round. 10 minutes is a long time. It's a long one round and it is designed to get people tired in the last 3 minutes of that 10 minute round. Somebody will make a mistake in 10 minutes and get that fight over in the first round. I knew I was out there a long time, but I was still out there going, "man I would love to sit down and talk to my coaches right now. I need to figure out what's going on because this guy is rifling me with shot after shot and they are starting to take their toll. Even the punches on the shoulder are really starting to hurt. I got to figure something out here." I was just kind of like "oh man, I'm in the middle of a war here."

thaformula.com - Now when you lose a fight the way you did against the number one lightweight in the world at the time, is it a little easier to accept mentally?

Jens Pulver - You know yeah. You can't hang your head. That's the way I chose to fight. You can't just go "oh what if I had done this or I wish I could have done this or that." That's the fight. You wish you wouldn't have lost, things could have been different, but on that day that's just the way it worked out. Of course your upset that you lose but at the same token its like "well it's time to get back in there and find out what you're made of."

thaformula.com - When you lost that fight though and you were leaving the ring, were you surprised at the love you received from the crowd despite being the loser of the fight and had you ever experienced something like that before?

Jens Pulver - Yeah, I was surprised and no I never had. I was blown away and I was kind of moved by it. That's when I really started learning about it's the way you fight out there and the way you let it all hang out. No matter what happens at the end, people are still gonna love you for it and that was just proof there in a fight like that. It definitely makes it hard to hang your head. It makes you happy that you do what you do and if your there to attract the fans or of your there to put on a good show, getting that kind of applause afterwards let's you know "hey it wasn't all for nothing. You didn't go out there to just waste your time and just get beat. You went out there and you put on a good show and they thanked you for it." So yeah it felt good.

thaformula.com - So you returned to fight in Pride's "Bushido" show and pulled out a KO win over Tomomi Iwama and then you returned to fight in Pride's "Bushido 9" against Sakurai, how did you feel heading into that fight and what happened in that fight?

Check Back Soon For Part 4 of Our Exclusive 4 Part Interview With The Ultimate Fighter Show Coach Jens "Little Evil" Pulver.

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