ThaFormula.com - When you guys finally dropped "The Listening," did you have any idea that you would end up getting so much love and such a buzz would build for the album?

Phonte - Nah, but I don't think any artist ever does truly. I think that nobody goes into recording an album like "damn this is gonna fucking flop." At the same time when it becomes big no one expects it to be that big, I expected that people would listen and that we were filling a void in Hip-Hop that hadn't been filled, but you couldn't have told me that Pete Rock was gonna call my house, that we would be touring with The Roots, and that one day Lil' Wayne would be getting be props. Just kind of the way it did it really surprised all of us.

ThaFormula.com - How long after did Atlantic come knocking?

Phonte - Probably like a year. We actually ended up signing with them in like 2004. They were hollering since like 2003. So like a year and a couple of months.

ThaFormula.com - Did signing with ABB prepare you for the Atlantic situation?

Phonte - Pretty much man. With ABB we knew it was a small label and it had its shortcomings as a company as far as muscle that a major would have, so we did a lot of shit on our own. Going to stores putting up our own posters, putting records in the stores and doing all that shit ourselves. So we finally got to Atlantic and were like "ok cool we finally got a machine behind us." But then "Minstrel (Show)" came out and we thought "oh hell maybe we don't." That was what I learned from that whole situation. No matter your situation, you still have to work for yourself and you can't depend on nobody to work for you.

ThaFormula.com - For an album that didn't have no big name producers or guest MC's, plus the fact that you weren't being put out by a big artist in the game and it being your first release on a major, don't you think that you guys did alright? I mean selling close to 100,000 records, despite all this, I felt was pretty damn good man...

Phonte - Yeah, man I mean make no mistake "Minstrel Show" didn't sell what we expected it to on a major, but at then end of the day for no real big guest appearances and big name producers and plus in the climate of radio that we are in right now, for us to do what we did it was a bit of a success. Hell as long as you outsell your last shit then you are good.

ThaFormula.com - Did Atlantic have expectations of their own for it?

Phonte - I don't think they had expectations and because of that I think that could have been one of those things that kind of hurt us. They didn't have expectations for it and they kind of just treated it like "oh well this just a little underground group, let's just put it out and see what happens." The thing about records is if you don't treat them like a big deal then the audience won't treat it as a big deal.

ThaFormula.com - With the type of Hip-Hop that radio was playing and the type that you guys were doing, I was really surprised that Atlantic even decided to drop the album because I really didn't see where little brother fit in radio wise. What do you think they could have even done to market you guys?

Phonte - Yeah, well I just think they could have made their presence known by getting behind the project. I just think that "Minstrel Show" was a project that they were unsure about. The thing was is that they let everybody else know that they were unsure about it. It's just like how when Alicia keys came out you could not go to any web site or magazine and not see Clive Davis standing beside her. Saying she was gonna be the next big thing and that she was gonna take the world by storm. Just constantly biggin' her up, and as an artist that does a lot for you. That shit does things for you that you can't even fathom. To have the head of your company, the same man that put out Whitney Houston and Aretha Franklin to be standing besides you saying you are about to be that next shit, that's crazy. That gets the people within the industry talkin'. That gets the fans saying "she must really be the shit if the big man is behind it." That gets the actual employees behind it saying I better do my job on this one 'cause the boss is behind it, I might fuck around and get fired." So its more of a thing of them standing behind the group. I mean there was people that didn't even know about the group and that we were on Atlantic. They thought we were still Indy.

ThaFormula.com - During the making of the album, did Atlantic push for you guys to work with certain producers and artists?

Phonte - Yeah, they wanted us to do stuff with outside producers and shit like that. We told them for this go round we have to do this our way. We have to make the name Little Brother known. For us to go and get and a Just (Blaze) record, a Kanye record or Timbaland record and come out like that, it's really a disservice to the group 'cause that's not what Little Brother is. For our first album on the label we have to come out as us and they kind of understood it. But now since we made that first mark with the "Minstrel Show," we are now at liberty to kind of do a little more and open up the range a little more. Every album is like you have a point to prove. The point on "Listening" was that we love Hip-Hop and we can just make some good music. With "Minstrel" we had to show the original fans that being on a major wasn't gonna change our style.

ThaFormula.com - I asked about Atlantic wanting certain producers because I remember somebody telling me how Dilated was pretty much forced to put out that Kanye record, otherwise Capitol would not have put out that Dilated album?

Phonte - Yeah because at the end of the day labels just want something they can sell. Dilated is my family and they will say straight up, "we knew what we were getting into but that's what it took for the record to move." But me just being a person who studies Hip-Hop and is really a student of the game of seeing why things work and why they don't work, I didn't want us to be in that position. That Dilated single did more for Kanye then it did for Dilated. I never forget when it came on 106 & Park. I clearly remember them starting the joint at Kanye's verse and then playing the hook and then cutting it out two bars into Rakka's verse. I was like "what the fuck?" So I was kind of aware of that and I didn't wanna see us in that same predicament with Kanye or with anybody.

ThaFormula.com - Do you think if you would have dropped "The Minstrel Show" independently that you would have sold the same numbers?

Phonte - Well, "The Listening" right now is at like 46,000.

ThaFormula.com - That's a lot of records independently. . 

Phonte - That's a lot of records, but that's like 3 years in the making. That's kind of the whole myth of the Indy thing. You have your independents and then you have your "true" independents. Like Koch is an independent, but you can go in any record store and find a Koch album. They have big muscle behind them. TVT is an independent but they have big muscle. ABB. Stones Throw, BBE are true independents in the sense that it's gonna be a longer grind and they may not have they money to get you in that Best Buy circular. That shits a whole 'nother ball game. The Indy game is a whole lot different then it was a couple of years ago. Nowadays if you sell 20,000 or 30,000 on an Indy you are doing pretty fucking good, of course you have your breakout stories like Danger Doom, Gnarls Barkley and Atmosphere but they been at it for a while. It's just a much harder thing. So for me to say would "The Listening" have sold more or the same on a "true" Indy? Uh, I mean we did almost 100,000 but we did have a little video play, commercial radio play so I don't know if we would have done the same. The business is just a total different market now.

ThaFormula.com - So is it a myth that you can make more money dropping on an Indy then on a major?

Phonte - Well, it depends really. You have to look at how you make your money as an artist. If you're expecting to make your money just off of record sales alone, then yes you might wanna go Indy. Just press your own shit up and move it yourself. As far as like recouping and all that shit yeah I got my royalty check off "The Listening." So you do get some money off of record sales, that does happen. On the flip side, being on a major just exposes you to a bigger audience in a lot of ways. While you may not be getting a royalty check from the label, you do get bigger show money. If you're a group like a Little Brother or like The Roots, most of the time your bread and butter is gonna come through shows. So by us being on a major label and for us having the video played and stuff like that, that ups your show money. So it just depends on how you wanna skin the cat. If your talking about just strictly money off of record sales, then yeah the Indy way is better because if your doing it yourself you get your money from CD sale number one, its all coming back to you. But from a show standpoint and touring a major label would probably be a better option.

ThaFormula.com - I ask this because I see a lot of major label artists in 2006 doing Indy numbers. It makes me wonder why do artists even want to sign to a major nowadays?

Phonte - Well for me it was just better to make the decision then to always look back and wonder "what if?" It's always better for you to just sign with a major, then once you sign it be like "okay maybe it ain't quite what I thought it was gonna be, but its better then wondering what it could have been." A lot of times its better to have the fantasy just crash in your face. Just get your dream shattered one good time so at least you know. You can see it for what it really is rather then always living the fantasy in your mind. So for me that's why we signed with the major. I think it's always "leave no stone unturned." If you have the opportunity to get your stuff out to more people and to get exposed to a bigger audience, I think you should take that chance. We took the chance and it's been a slow and steady grind just like everything else.

ThaFormula.com - Honestly man, how much of what the critics say really fuck with an artists head?

Phonte - It's the music industry man. If you're in this for love you are in the wrong business man. For me, I check the message boards 'cause at the end of the day I am a fan of music man. When I'm on the message boards and on the sites I'm checkin' to see what new is out, or artists that people are talking about. You know I'm looking for that next shit like every other music man, but its just a fact now that I make music so they are talkin' about the music I make too. As far as how much it affects me, I would really say very little if at all. I'm aware of what goes on and I like to see what people are saying. When I was younger, I would just be on everything just seeing what people are saying and fighting back the urge and just responding to people left and right. Now it's just to the point where you know, you just got to make your music and keep it moving. It just amazes me the extent to which people just don't know what the fuck they are talking about, but really think they do.

ThaFormula.com - I was surprised at how much people and critics praised the album before it dropped and then once it did, it didn't sell like crazy, everyone started talking about how it wasn't that good of an album...

Phonte - I think in a lot of ways where the backlash came from, it just came from a lot of disappointed hearts. A lot of people who were expecting Little Brother on Atlantic records to just finally breakthrough and bring "Real Hip-Hop" back, and then when it didn't happen it was just like , "uh well I never liked them niggaz anyway." It was just like muthafuckas was ashamed because once it got out to the rest of the world and didn't quite just blow up like the way they thought it was gonna do, it was just like, "uh okay fuck it I got to find a new band to jump on, I've got to find that next underground group that I can put in my back pocket." That's just the way the shit goes man. I've realized that. But like I said, my goal remains the same, to make the best music I can make and fans are gonna come and they're gonna go, but the music is gonna remain.

ThaFormula.com - Looking back, how do you feel about "The Minstrel Show?"

Phonte - I'm still proud of it and I'm still proud that we were blessed enough to put it out and for people to hear it the way we wanted them to hear it. I think the biggest mistake that we made as a group is that we believed our own hype. We believed the hype that we were hearing from the message boards, from the press, from the media and you know we kind of thought the buzz was bigger then what it really was. The buzz was big but it was only big among the muthafuckas that was in the loop already. So once you get out into the real world and start dealing with people with lives other then the internet, you realize that they ain't really up on your shit as much as you thought they was. So that's what I think the mistake was with just dealing with that whole album.

ThaFormula.com - What was Atlantic felling like after it dropped and did what it did? Because obviously you guys didn't get dropped and your still coming with another album.

Phonte - I really don't know. In the meetings we had with Atlantic, I think they realize where they went wrong just like we realize a lot of places where we went wrong. It was mistakes made on both parts. So I think now the mentality is, "look we just need to go hard all the way on this next project and lets really see what the fuck its gonna be," and that's all we ever wanted in the first place.

ThaFormula.com - When exactly did you guys come up with the decision to not have an entirely 9th wonder produced album? Because in a lot of peoples eyes, Little Brother is 9th on the beats and Phonte and Big Pooh with the rhymes. I mean you do know that you will have a lot of angry people comparing it to how Gangstarr is Guru with the rhymes and Premier with the beats, it's not a Gangstarr album any other way. They'll say the same about a Little Brother album...

Phonte - If it was a duo and one member leaves the duo, then that's a break up, but if its a trio and one member had to leave the trio, that ain't no break up, that's just an evolution. R.E.M. didn't stop making albums when their drummer left and 9th has not left. If one member of a collective is at odds with the rest of the collective, then you know the show must go on. This record is gonna separate us from the people that love the music from the muthafuckas that just wanna keep us in their back pocket all day.

ThaFormula.com - Now put yourself in the place of a Little Brother fan. If you were a fan of a group like Little Brother, how would you look at the news of so and so producer in the group not rockin' the whole album as usual?

Phonte - If I was a Little Brother fan and I heard that the whole album wasn't gonna be solely produced by 9th, I would look at the track record. I would say "okay, 'The Listening' totally produced by 9th, dope album." "'The Minstrel Show' totally produced by 9th, dope album." "'The Chitlin' Circuit' had a lot of variation and it was real dope." "'Chitlin' Circuit 1.5' had outside production but was still dope." "Separate But Equal' had a lot of outside production, but still dope." So I would look at the catalog, and then make my decision based on that. If I'm a fan I'm making my decision based on the music, not what I think "Little Brother" is or that bleedin' heart shit. Just the music. So that's what I would do. If I heard 'Tay and Pooh spit over dope beats that weren't produced by 9th then shit. I would trust them to keep doing the same shit on their album and then when the album comes out I would pick it up and judge for myself.

ThaFormula.com - Good answer, I've got no comeback for that…So the new album is called the "Get Back" right?

Phonte - Yeah, and I'm not gonna say who's on all the production because just when we think we are done, I get like another call and another email like "yo so and so wants to submit some beats and be like word? For real?" So its been like a lot of surprises and some of the calls we been getting have been kind of crazy. So far Khrysis is definitely on it, Illmind, and 9th has one track so far and that's it for right now. There is more I should say but that's all I'm gonna say right now.

ThaFormula.com - How has it been recording with all these producers for a Little Brother album?

Phonte - Good. The thing about it man that people don't understand is that me and Pooh have always produced ourselves and when I say produce I don't mean make beats. I mean produce as in developing concepts, writing the hooks, arranging songs, sequencing and you know actually producing records. You got a lot of people saying "oh 9th is not gonna be producing the whole album, I hope it has his direction and his insight." It's just funny for me to hear that because I'm like "dude every album since 'The Listening' 9th has only heard when it was finished. "Minstrel Show," "Chitlin' circuit 1 and 1.5," "Separate But Equal," 9th heard all those albums only when they were done. So I think people underestimate the role that me and Pooh play in the whole recording process. So as far as us working with outside producers, its pretty much been the same way as working with 9th or Khrysis or any other producer.

ThaFormula.com - I saw the EPMD typeface logo for "Get Back," what's the deal with that? 

Phonte - That's the official album logo. That's not the album cover, but it is the official album logo. We about to get the T-shirts and stickers and all that done. "Get Back" for me its just more about getting back to the reason I chose to make music. I think somewhere along the "Minstrel Show," I kind of lost my way. I kind of let the industry get to me too much and I didn't like the person I was becoming. I was becoming a person that was watching Soundscan and reading radio reports and just starting to become too industry with my shit. So "Get Back" to me is just like a return to that original place in your heart and your creative soul that made you wanna do this. Just the love and making and hearing dope music.

ThaFormula.com - What about MC's, are you bringing any guests on the new album?

Phonte - It's a couple we got already. One is gonna surprise a lot of people and it's a couple of more we lookin' at reaching out to. It is a couple MC's we plan on bringing into the fold to kind of fall out of what people expect.

ThaFormula.com - I notice that you don't make many guest appearances on people's albums man. Is that by choice or just how it is?

Phonte - As far as doing stuff on an Indy level, cats will reach out to me. As far as on the major labels, there is just no real incentive to it. I tell people all the time man, "The Minstrel Show," having that shit brick was one of the greatest things that ever happened to me because it really showed me who my true supporters was and who my true friends were. There was a bunch of muthafuckas on major labels talking about "oh we gonna do something and boom, boom, boom." Once The Minstrel Show" came and it didn't sell the way they thought it would, muthafuckas turned their back like, "okay so much for that." There are very few people that will just fuck with you because of you. Everybody wants to be associated with success so if you're on a major label what is the incentive for me to do a track with you? It's funny, I never would have guessed that I would have had a song with Bun B before I had a song done with one of the "conscious" rappers or acts. You could have never told me that and that shit just opened my eyes to a lot of shit. Support man can come from unexpected places.

ThaFormula.com - Yeah, that's exactly my point. I remember reading an interview with Black Thought where he was speaking about that same thing as far as wondering why he doesn't get called more by his so called friends to be on certain tracks. I hear so many artists within that circle biggin' Little Brother up, but yet I never see or hear you guys rockin' on a track together. It got me wondering as to why that is?

Phonte - I caught that interview. Once again though I think it's a case of A; muthafuckas don't put their money where their mouth is and B; it's like what's the incentive? Like "why should I give this up and coming new jack a chance to possibly outshine me on my own shit? I'm doing him a favor, like why?" It's the same all around wherever you go man. When I was young and innocent in this game, I was all for the like the conscious and progression of Hip-Hop and shit. But man its just as much bullshit that goes on at that level as it is with the dope rappers. It's just all the same shit man. All these niggaz is just trying to make money. I'm just to the point where I just deal with real genuine people. Bun B came out of nowhere. Just (Blaze) reached out and said "its nothing, whatever y'all need." Rhymefest is a real good brother, "You fuck with me, I fuck with you." I mean make no mistake though man, once we hit 100,000 records, Atlantic will make their money back. It wasn't like it was a total failure.

ThaFormula.com - Honestly, that's about what I figured you guys would end up selling man. Just because of the fact that you were a new group on a major label with no real affiliation with any big name artist or group and that most of your fan base downloads your album anyways...

Phonte - All things considered, I'd agree with you. But you got to keep in mind the state of mind I was in when we got those numbers. We had been on a fucking tour of the U.S. for all these fucking weeks and it's like your just tired and you're ready to go home. Then you get the first weeks numbers and its like its over. You just feel that it's a wrap. You're like "who are we fucking foolin', why are we even out here?" But once again I think god has a way of kind of putting you in your place and making you just kind of looking at the big picture.

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